Forum Mafia: Round 2

[Pixelmage]

I do not confirm roles. If you want to claim, you're going to have to put up with people doubting that claim. And people claiming falsely.

I'm sorry if I didn't put that in the rules, but I didn't think it would come up.

That is significantly disappointing, since in a face-to-face game where people draw roles from a deck, I could simply show my card to everyone to prove allegiance.

But, I guess this is as far as I can play then. Up to you guys... Take the doctor out, or try to find a mafia instead? On the upside, if the cop is still alive, he can let us know who the target should be, and then I can protect him during the night, making it 2 turns of cop-guided mafia lynching, because they'll be forced to take me out first in order to get to him. Well, if he's not out already, that is.

Anyhow, now that I made myself a free night kill, might as well lynch someone else and try to get the score a little more balanced?

[Victin]

Since we can't get confirmation, we can just let Pixel live now and wait to see if the Mafia will kill him tonight. Since the Doctor can't protect himself, either the Mafia kills him because he's the Doctor or he lives because he's Mafia. In that case, we lynch him tomorrow. In that case, the Mafia already knows the plan and can just let us lynch Pixel tomorrow.

That means, assuming there's more than one Mafioso out there and Pixel isn't him, we have chances of lynching him/her now, Pixel has the chance to save someone tonight and tomorrow, if no one dies, the saved person can confirm who is the Doctor.

That means we shouldn't kill Pixel this round, because if he's lying and is Mafia we can just lynch him tomorrow (lynching some other Mafioso today), or, if he's telling the truth, either he dies tonight or the Mafia chooses to not kill him tonight he has the chance to save someone who can prove he's the Doctor.

Or he's the Godfather, and tonight if the Cop scans him, he'll turn out as Town. If the Cop tries to intervene, s/he will have to reveal themselves and be killed that night. That means Pixel expected Anura to not tell out who had which role in case they revealed themselves.

[Pixelmage]

So... Considering that without Anura's confirmation you have no way of knowing whether or not I'm telling the truth... Well, you could most certainly lobby for my head... But! Once it turns out I wasn't in the mafia after all, those trying to get me out during the day, when I can't protect myself during the night turn, essentially paint themselves in gangster colors.

Who would have guessed that Anura's non-confirmation would turn out to offer me yet another hand to play...

[Sophira]

I did. In fact, I expected it.

My vote is for Pixel.

EDIT: DISREGARD, I WAS A PAGE BEHIND. Reading now...

EDIT 2: New vote is for Qara. Sorry for the confusion.

[Anura]

Qara has 5 votes; the next vote for her will be the hammer (which means insta-lynch).

Or, in the format I will use for such announcements henceforth, Qara is under the hammer.

[Sophira]

Actually, just a minute. Victin, you're wrong there - I don't think the Mafia would kill Pixel their turn, even if Pixel is the Doctor. Why? Because the Doctor hasn't had any saves yet, and the Mafia can probably get away with one save being made in the name of having us believe that Pixel is Mafia. In return, they get a free kill.

Meep.

[Sophira]

What the hell.

No, I'm changing my vote back from Qara to Pixel. Qara's probably still going to be lynched, but there are three votes left and an insta-lynch is the last thing we want right now.

(Sorry, Anura.)

[Anura]

*shakes fist*

Qara is no longer under the hammer.

[Victin]

Actually, just a minute. Victin, you're wrong there - I don't think the Mafia would kill Pixel their turn, even if Pixel is the Doctor. Why? Because the Doctor hasn't had any saves yet, and the Mafia can probably get away with one save being made in the name of having us believe that Pixel is Mafia. In return, they get a free kill.

Meep.

I know. I said that. I also said if we avoid killing Pixel today and he is de facto the Doctor, we get the chance to kill a Mafioso. Then, if the Mafia don't try to kill Pixel, Pixel in turn has the chance to save someone and prove himself to be the Doctor. If they do, we did the right thing by not lynching him. If they don't, the Cop might still choose to save Pixel if he's actually the Doctor, keeping in mind he might actually be the Godfather. We'd only know for sure if Pixel survives tomorrow and saves the Cop that night and that if the Mafia targets the real Cop, the real Cop claims Pixel is Town, and Pixel, if Doctor, saves Cop, if Godfather, kills Cop.

[Sophira]

...

...my head hurts.

[Pixelmage]

What you all are not considering is that taking the chance that I might save someone this night turn takes into account:

1 - The mafia not-targeting me during the night turn.
2 - Me successfully predicting who they will target and managing to save that person.
2a - In order for that to benefit me at all, the saved townie would have to reveal themselves, confirming for the mafia not just me as a free kill, but themselves as going to die right after I do.

Extra - I'm just going to sit back and laugh at the developing shenanigans.

[Victin]

What you all are not considering is that taking the chance that I might save someone this night turn takes into account:

1 - The mafia not-targeting me during the night turn.

Uh... But that's what I said.

2 - Me successfully predicting who they will target and managing to save that person.

I also said that.

2a - In order for that to benefit me at all, the saved townie would have to reveal themselves, confirming for the mafia not just me as a free kill, but themselves as going to die right after I do.

Well, at least it won't be us lynching you, which means the Mafia can die. Besides, the Townie in question was already going to die anyways, so either he shuts up and let another Townie get lynched, then gets killed the other night, or he helps us not kill ourselves, then die the other night.

Extra - I'm just going to sit back and laugh at the developing shenanigans.

I expected that from you.

[narrativedilettante]

Now I totally want it to turn out that Pixel was actually the Godfather all along.

[Rick Healey]

I do not confirm roles. If you want to claim, you're going to have to put up with people doubting that claim. And people claiming falsely.

I'm sorry if I didn't put that in the rules, but I didn't think it would come up.

That is significantly disappointing, since in a face-to-face game where people draw roles from a deck, I could simply show my card to everyone to prove allegiance.

Okay, I'm intentionally staying out of the active play of any of these games because my presence would have an oversized effect on the game if I was a player. That said...

Point of order

I'm only familiar with the Americanized version of the game, The Werewolves of Miller's Crossing, but in that version, you are specifically barred from revealing your card. The reason for that is a role that doesn't have an analogue in the current game - the Little Girl, who's allowed to have their eyes open during the night phase (when the werewolves hunt). If you were allowed to reveal cards, the Little Girl could point to each player who moved during the night phase, and win the game for the villagers right then and there. You're allowed to claim a particular role, as Pix is doing here, but you're not allowed to reveal it.

Sorry for the interruption. Please carry on.

EDIT: Or, to be even more obvious, every villager could just reveal their cards, and those who didn't are the obvious werewolves and get lynched immediately. In short, Anura's ruling is the one one that can allow the game to be played.

[Pixelmage]

I see.

The only experience I had was playing some quick rounds during college intervals, there really weren't many special roles in play, usually only the Doctor (Or Angel as it was called then) got in play. And that person could show his hand in order to escape a lynch during day time, with the obvious downside that he couldn't save himself, so, he became a free target for the night, thus, negating the ability to save other people instead.

The normal roles wouldn't reveal their hand, since, like you said, it'd make the game pointless simply by having every villager show their hand. And I can see how the Little Girl would break the game with a reveal, but I don't have experience with roles other than the "person who can save other people during the night", and that one could reveal himself in the games I've played.

Well, the confusion itself is rather enjoyable, in its own particular way so it's still a winning move from my perspective. By which I mean, this is fun.

[narrativedilettante]

I've often played versions with no cards at all, just taps on the head from the GM to assign roles.

And I've never actually played a version that's, like OFFICIAL in any way, with a rulebook or a proper title or any branding whatsoever. Every time I've played a version that DID have cards, they were either scraps of paper that the GM wrote on or actual playing cards that we either all agreed in advance referred to different roles, or that we marked up for our purposes.

[Pixelmage]

[...] or actual playing cards that we either all agreed in advance referred to different roles, or that we marked up for our purposes.

That's how it was done in college, since people also liked to play other card games too and pretty much everyone had his own deck. Which game was played mostly depended on how many people there were at the time, and how much free time the group had. Some people would have 1 class a day and still spend the whole day on campus just to play card games, or cram for exams when it was exam season. XD

Red for mafia, Black for town. Joker for the Angel (Same as this game's Doctor). Make a smaller pool of cards according to the number of people who would actually play, shuffle then hand the cards over.

[Krika]

I've often played versions with no cards at all, just taps on the head from the GM to assign roles.

That is what I've done in the past, and I like it because as Rick says, this way you can't game the system to reveal things because there's no physical evidence, and no GM confirmation.

[eli_gone_crazy]

You all are very silly.

Pixel isn't the doctor.

I am.

[Pixelmage]

You all are very silly.

Pixel isn't the doctor.

I am.

...

... ...

*noms popcorn* This is turning out way better than I expected it to.

[Sophira]

I'M Spartacus!

[Krika]

And I'm a gambler. *makes dice dance along his knuckles*

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

Okay I was asleep and now there are too many words and why does everybody hate friendship?

On the one hand, Russ explicitly said that she doesn't like my love of friendship, which proves she is evil.

On the other hand, all game Pixie has been staunchly insisting on killing jack. Why suddenly change that to me, unless he and jack are in cahoots? He could vote for jack freely before because there were no other votes on jack and that way it distanced them, but now that there are fewer people, he's just going to pick off the innocent. And revealing himself as the doctor doesn't prove reliability-- the doctor's not the one who knows what anyone else is, and my legbuddy is more trustworthy than someone trying to kill me (even when she wants me dead too ), so...

In self-defense (and because jack has never tried to murder me), I vote for Pixie.

[Victin]

Y'know what, I'm convincing myself this whole confusion is just to distract us from either the Masons and/or the Mafia. Since Qara was the one about to die before Pixel's reveal… Maybe the Masons/Mafia want to protect a member of theirs who is a PR/convince us they are not related. Since I'm worries more with the people who are not in the spotlight than those who are… I'll need to analyse and then cast a vote.

[eli_gone_crazy]

I have been utterly demolished by the power of friendship and love and nice things (especially violently angry legbuddies) so I will now change my vote to myself. Because I am a terrible, horrible, conniving person.