Mafia Round 3 - you shouldn't trust anyone

[Endless Sea]

Huh. I made a few jokes about this sort of thing, but I didn't think you'd actually go through with it. :| Go figure.

[Blurred_9L]

#EliWasRight

#BlameRick

[Rick Healey]

#EliWasRight

#BlameRick

That's generally a good instinct. After all, you shouldn't trust anyone in a game of Mafia.

[Blurred_9L]

You're like those games that teach you that jumping into pits is an instant kill, just to have a secret and very important item be hidden inside a pit, with nothing to hint that you are you supposed to jump inside it.

[Rick Healey]

You're like those games that teach you that jumping into pits is an instant kill, just to have a secret and very important item be hidden inside a pit, with nothing to hint that you are you supposed to jump inside it.

Well, now that you mention it, I did really like Mega Man X2.

[Anura]

I hate this game of emotions we play.

[Dryunya]

Ok, I feel cheated, but in a good way.
I do have some notes on the game, which I'll post when I come home.
For starters, how were we supposed to lynch a man who was already dead?

[eli_gone_crazy]

Do what I did and refuse to play the game

[Dryunya]

Ok, I'm home, so.
Since I was the doctor (sorry, a doctor ) I actually took this seriously and tried to find out who's who.
I was positive Dilly was the mayor, because the people she voted for tended to die after the tie. I was pretty sure Sophira was town, because she gave us an advice that would be disadvantageous for the Mafia (not to lynch Pixel - even though we did anyway). The rest I was not so sure about, so I mostly tried to protect the players I'd target - the ones that don't get in the way, which is why I picked Blur, and then Endless. The last one was Dilly, because by day 3 everyone would definitely see that she was the mayor. It didn't really matter, because the mafia wouldn't have to be picky about their last lynch.
My first pick was Anura, by the way. Didn't help much.

Now, let's address the twist. I am not really mad at being played like that - I mean, come on, we played TWWF. If anything, we should have seen that coming. The randomness is what really messed the game up, though, because I was trying to look for logic where there was none. But, as I said, I was under the firm impression that we were playing Mafia, and I was acting like it. Maybe in an unnecessarily creepy way.

I didn't plan to be creepy until you guys started roleplaying, btw. I should add that the RP made the game pretty confusing, because it was hard to see if Qara was acting super suspicious (being all peaceful doesn't help anyone in a Mafia game) because that was her role, or because she was Mafia. I didn't have any definite idea of the mafia members, but Qara was the prime suspect. Russ was another one. And I'm kind of surprised you guys didn't lynch me.

[narrativedilettante]

And I'm kind of surprised you guys didn't lynch me.

I decided that I wanted to lynch you before the last day round, but then I forgot by the time I got a chance to vote.

[Qara-Xuan Zenith]

I should add that the RP made the game pretty confusing, because it was hard to see if Qara was acting super suspicious (being all peaceful doesn't help anyone in a Mafia game) because that was her role, or because she was Mafia. I didn't have any definite idea of the mafia members, but Qara was the prime suspect.

Um. I should mention that I decided before the game started, and before I was assigned my role, that (unless I was something where doing so would make me feel guilty, like doctor or cop) no matter what role I had, I would try to act as suspicious as possible, and entertain myself by seeing how long it took me to get lynched. I was surprised I lasted as long as I did!

Also, re: killing Rick. I am not upset; as a former camp counselor, I think "no mafia but let's pretend there is" is an absolutely valid, and often entertaining course of action. The only thing that bothers me is something I think Dryu already pointed out-- voting to lynch Rick can't be considered a valid win condition when Rick made it fairly explicit that he was the one killed in the first post. But that's a minor quibble. HEY RICK WHEN'S THE NEXT GAME?

[Rick Healey]

I will note that it was *possible* that Dilly wasn't the mayor. If the mayor's choice wasn't involved in the tie, the mayor can use their second vote to break it. In that case, a mayor who mirrored Dilly's vote every time would've been diabolically clever. That wasn't the case this time, but it was within the realm of the possible.

I will say that I hadn't anticipated the role-play. I enjoyed it, but I didn't see it coming.

In retrospect, I'm a bit surprised people didn't question some of my word choices in posts, like how "mafia" was among the roles that I said I might use, or that I never gave a lower bound as to how many mafia I'd pick.

Also, one more admission... it was pretty mean to introduce the Cupid/Lovers role when I never intended to use it from the getgo. I included it as the distraction to keep people from asking what quirk I'd use when running.

EDIT: Next game? Well, I figured I'd give folks some time to digest this one. Also give time to allow whatever harsh feelings were remaining from this one to cool down. Finally, I wasn't sure if folks would even want me running another one so soon (though Blur seemed pretty keen on me *playing* next one on Twitter).

I will promise that I won't run Black Death on my next run of this if I do run. Though if I get enough players, I may decide to run Flock Of Wolves instead (two rival mafias, with the town winning by removing all mafia and a mafia winning if the other mafia is killed off).

Finally... I have to admit, I wondered what kind of chaos would have erupted if any of the doctors came forward with their role.

[narrativedilettante]

If multiple people stepped forward each claiming to be a Doctor, I wouldn't have believed any of them. XD

And I did take notice of that wording, Rick, and realized that you hadn't guaranteed we'd have Mafia at all, but I don't think that actually occurred to me until late in the game.

[Anura]

Okay, I'm setting up another game. Rick, you can set up another parallel one; I'm marking mine as a bonus round rather than round 4 because it's going to be just a little bit completely insane.

[Blurred_9L]

(though Blur seemed pretty keen on me *playing* next one on Twitter).

You bet I can wait for it

but that's okay, take your time, Rick.

[Victin]

The first day Rick forgot my vote as a doctor, so I voted to save two people on Day 2.

After that, with so much roleplaying instead of straight up playing, I gave up and chose randomly whom I'd save. I did not use any die or anything to determine whom I'd save but instinct. And that's why I stopped voting and posting analyses.

Also I agree that voting to lynch Rick came to my mind in the first day, and some other time later, but in the first post he said he was dead, so I ignored that

I think I can say I didn't enjoy this game much, but not because of what Rick did - I'm feeling neutral at that right now. I didn't enjoy it much because with all the roleplaying I had no idea of what to do, and as the Doctor asking to be killed or randomly killing would be completely unfair and all. This is not, however, saying you people can't enjoy or play Mafia roleplaying, just that I, myself, don't like it that way.

Though if I get enough players, I may decide to run Flock Of Wolves instead (two rival mafias, with the town winning by removing all mafia and a mafia winning if the other mafia is killed off).

That is something I'd be interested in playing. Also, as of writing this line of text, I'd prefer if the possible mafia variations to be written in the first post. I hadn't played enough mafia to know "Black Death" was an actual scenario, so listing mafia only as a possible role would never strike me as strange, because I'd always assume it to be in the game that is called Mafia.

[Rick Healey]

I really felt bad about messing up Victin's first save. In addition to giving him two saves, if he had said that he would've made the correct save call, I would have counted it towards the "three saves" victory condition.

Also, to be fair, not everyone who has played Mafia (or Werewolves of Miller's Hollow) know about the Black Death variant. It's generally treated as a vicious surprise even by those familiar with it.

For the confusion about "Ol' Footsteps," that was partly because it seemed like folks wanted a framing device and not just "so-and-so died, they were with this faction." Part of it was needing to establish why folks were suddenly voting to lynch people in said device. And part of it was the assumption that folks would still potentially consider me fair game because I was still participating in the thread. Well, assuming folks thought to target me; worth noting that even most people running Black Death don't allow that.

[Victin]

I really felt bad about messing up Victin's first save. In addition to giving him two saves, if he had said that he would've made the correct save call, I would have counted it towards the "three saves" victory condition.

Oh. Oh! Too bad that, as you already know, my plan was to wait until night to decide, and since it had happened while I slept I didn't even have the time to think, turning my to you when you asked into "no one".

[Krika]

And part of it was the assumption that folks would still potentially consider me fair game because I was still participating in the thread. Well, assuming folks thought to target me; worth noting that even most people running Black Death don't allow that.

But the thing is by the implicit rules of the game you're not a participant - you're running it, not playing, and therefore you aren't someone to considering trying to kill. This is bugs me here, because it feels like you gave a victory condition for being silly/cheaty rather than smart.

[Rick Healey]

And part of it was the assumption that folks would still potentially consider me fair game because I was still participating in the thread. Well, assuming folks thought to target me; worth noting that even most people running Black Death don't allow that.

But the thing is by the implicit rules of the game you're not a participant - you're running it, not playing, and therefore you aren't someone to considering trying to kill. This is bugs me here, because it feels like you gave a victory condition for being silly/cheaty rather than smart.

Would you have preferred that I made it a no-win scenario, then? That's what Black Death is supposed to be. Yeah, it's an incredibly non-intuitive solution, and most people wouldn't have honored it even if you did try it. That's why I also had a much more mundane solution (the three-saves one). It seemed more sporting.

That and, like I said, it's not a particularly nice move to pull this variant in the first place. I thought folks deserved credit for calling me out regardless of when they did it.

[Krika]

It's not so much that I dislike it for being no-win (I'm fine with that, and I suspected something was up when no Mafia kept showing up, along with being taken out early so I wasn't invested really in the outcome), so much as I just dislike solutions that require you to break the rules of the game to do them.

[Dryunya]

I just dislike solutions that require you to break the rules of the game to do them.

This, pretty much. And I'm sort of surprised that with all those doctors we didn't save anyone.

Also, this video got posted on the same day the twist surfaced, and I refuse to believe this is a coincidence.

[eli_gone_crazy]

Honestly though, I don't think that it required one to break the rules.

I could be wrong, but the rules allow for us to refuse to kill anyone. The game has the inherent DRIVE to murder everyone, but the players are allowed the choice of whether to perform the action or not.

Also, I'm sorry Vic, for the roleplaying. I've basically, because I'm bonkers, decided that the only way to play Mafia and have it be entertaining and interesting for me every time is to pick random stereotypes and play that way until I die/win.

Then again, I probably am not taking this as seriously as everyone else. So... yeah. Mafia is not srs bsns, I guess.

[Rick Healey]

And I'm sort of surprised that with all those doctors we didn't save anyone.

Also, this video got posted on the same day the twist surfaced, and I refuse to believe this is a coincidence.

With the former, I was a little surprised too. It honestly didn't help that Blur regularly got multiple people trying to save him. I'm not sure how.

For the latter, I honestly have nothing to do with it. Amusing coincidence.