Fatalism sucks

[Dryunya]

Just need to get something else off my chest.
I'm not accusing GMs of railroading (we've said just about everything there was to say about it ), but lately I catch myself thinking "I don't really need to interfere in that thread, let the plot roll" way too often. Just about all the time. And, you know... It gets kind of tempting to step aside altogether and let the future happen.
This sucks.

[NeverSlender]

You can't be railroaded in an ARG, the plot is predetermined.

[Adell]

Just need to get something else off my chest.
I'm not accusing GMs of railroading (we've said just about everything there was to say about it ), but lately I catch myself thinking "I don't really need to interfere in that thread, let the plot roll" way too often. Just about all the time. And, you know... It gets kind of tempting to step aside altogether and let the future happen.
This sucks.

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you feel like you're not having an impact?

[Dryunya]

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you feel like you're not having an impact?

Dunno. Maybe. Maybe we all aren't.

[NeverSlender]

We're only here to solve puzzles and go get stuff in the real world, e.g. Find echos, in order to further the plot. We don't write the plot, we drive it forwards.

[Adell]

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you feel like you're not having an impact?

Dunno. Maybe. Maybe we all aren't.

Personally I don't agree. While it has been difficult to convince characters of certain things, I feel like we've been having at least some effect on what's been going on. Like when Pixel found all those characters, we weren't spoon fed them we actively FOUND them, that seems like having an impact to me.

[Scarab]

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean you feel like you're not having an impact?

Dunno. Maybe. Maybe we all aren't.

I feel like you're having an impact.

I do get that feeling myself sometimes. It does feel as if we're kind of in a jam, but then other days I feel as if I've really been helpful... it just kind of depends.
There are a lot of us here, and they can only run so many storylines at once. It stands to reason that we're going to feel like we're not getting anywhere now and then.

In other words: don't step aside, we like you!

[Dryunya]

Personally I don't agree. While it has been difficult to convince characters of certain things, I feel like we've been having at least some effect on what's been going on. Like when Pixel found all those characters, we weren't spoon fed them we actively FOUND them, that seems like having an impact to me.

Well, no matter what they say, I still think that was Sequence Breaking. It's not like we can do that all the time.

[JackAlsworth]

It's entirely possibly that there wasn't a planned sequence for finding all the characters. This setup feels like a sandbox to me - throw all the character blogs out there (not all at the same time, but at similar times), let the players look for them, and push them toward a particular one if necessary.

[Scarab]

It's entirely possibly that there wasn't a planned sequence for finding all the characters. This setup feels like a sandbox to me - throw all the character blogs out there (not all at the same time, but at similar times), let the players look for them, and push them toward a particular one if necessary.

Yes thats how it feels to me too. We've been pulled up for not getting to something fast enough and missign important info, like with the notebook (and possibly Don Quixote) but in general, we're psuhing things along with them occaisonally steppping forward to add to the mix. We didn't really FIND the Cabal, for example, although we suspected somebody was actively working against us.

[Dryunya]

Just FYI, I searched for Morgana / Morgan Le Fay and The Phantom (Erik) in blogs and twitter. Considering the Cabal's sneakiness, it's unlikely they are going to be found this way. I think we are officially in a dead end here.

[Pixelmage]

Just FYI, I searched for Morgana / Morgan Le Fay and The Phantom (Erik) in blogs and twitter. Considering the Cabal's sneakiness, it's unlikely they are going to be found this way. I think we are officially in a dead end here.

Well, we could start mapping out the patterns so far... It was a simple "they're using this ezblog.co a lot" that led to Gulliver and the lovers... But yeah, if we actually map the details and OLAP/DataMine the stuff we could seriously break the pacing... Which is why I'm reluctant to DO it... But I understand how you feel. I can't help at all with the LAYAR, I'm not actually handling any character and it feels that all we can do is wait until the next puzzle.

[Scarab]

Just FYI, I searched for Morgana / Morgan Le Fay and The Phantom (Erik) in blogs and twitter. Considering the Cabal's sneakiness, it's unlikely they are going to be found this way. I think we are officially in a dead end here.

Well, we could start mapping out the patterns so far... It was a simple "they're using this ezblog.co a lot" that led to Gulliver and the lovers... But yeah, if we actually map the details and OLAP/DataMine the stuff we could seriously break the pacing... Which is why I'm reluctant to DO it... But I understand how you feel. I can't help at all with the LAYAR, I'm not actually handling any character and it feels that all we can do is wait until the next puzzle.

If it helps, I'm the Witch's campaign manager, and I still feel as if I'm not making any especially big contributions. Still all we can do is wait and see what happens. And stuff WILL happen eventually (hopefully when we're awake)

[Sicon112]

I gotta say, this is killing my immersion. I predicted Sherlock would run into Cindy, so I gave him the information. He completely ignored it and just went on with the plot, and now he doesn't know who she is, as if I had never posted.

And now I told Romeo all the information about his situation THREE TIMES and he still has yet to acknowledge the posts' existence. He just continues to go along his merry way as if my explanations of everything never happens, just like before. It's getting really aggravating. I really am starting to feel like I have no effect on anything at all. The railroading is ridiculous.

[EdwardTheAwesome]

Uh, I dunno about you guys, but I feel like our efforts have had quite an impact. These characters that have entered our world do have their own personalities, and can be stubborn, but what we do matters.

I mean, we got Holmes and Poirot working together, accidentally caused a fight between Romeo and Juliet, left a notebook so the Cabal could find it, stopped Medusa, convinced Mr. A to open up, cracked a Vigenere cipher, discovered a dozen hidden blogs… and you're wondering whether we make a difference?

We can't afford to resign ourselves to inaction. There's just too much at stake.

[agoraoptera]

...accidentally caused a fight between Romeo and Juliet...

I blame that on Vanessa. Totally not our fault!

[Pixelmage]

Uh, I dunno about you guys, but I feel like our efforts have had quite an impact. These characters that have entered our world do have their own personalities, and can be stubborn, but what we do matters.

I mean, we got Holmes and Poirot working together, accidentally caused a fight between Romeo and Juliet, left a notebook so the Cabal could find it, stopped Medusa, convinced Mr. A to open up, cracked a Vigenere cipher, discovered a dozen hidden blogs… and you're wondering whether we make a difference?

We can't afford to resign ourselves to inaction. There's just too much at stake.

Problem is. Aside from the blogs, everything else was, in a way, spoon fed to us.
The detectives meeting? They went on the run when we tried to invoke it. Only to meet when they wanted.
Lover's quarrel? A wild Vanessa appeared, out of nowhere.
Mr. A sent a instatiation to do an AMA? Only after we nearly started a war on the forum rebelling aganist him. Tantrum much?
The Vigenere cypher came in a Known and Cracked substitution chyper with the key underlined! I mean, come on, underline the key? Who actually does that? Anyone could crack that one given a few days, we just did that faster due to hivemind. But I'll admit it was a nice puzzle...
The notebook... If we (you) got the number after losing the notebook. Cabal would've done so if we got it, meaning they still would threaten Joan Lawson, otherwise we'd have no development on cofirming Todd's identity through the voicemail. Becasue under no circunstance the Therapist would admit to her patient's identity. Meaning getting it was pointless either way.

If Dryu and I didn't go around the patterns to find these others on ezblog.co, it'll would still come down to either someone else going meta or Mr. A throwing another riddle to us.

I get what you mean though, we do a lot of stuff. The only real problem is we can't go on the offensive at all. The only thing we can do is react to set events. Sicon flat out tells Romeo he's damaging the reallity and will be kicked off this world... You'd expect either a backlash or a refusal to believe... The balance of reality is not something every single character can ignore without any reaction... After all the stuff Gulliver went through in his travels, he should be the first to accept the situation and roll with the rules over here... Poirot and Holmes investigating murders instead of trying to understand why/how/when they dropped here?
Quixote sure is loopy, Cheshire doesn't care, but the others can't all use the same excuses all the time.

What if we decide to ignore the witch campaing and not make the posters at all? Mr. A tweets that we should do so and the witch discovers the forum and will curse us all if we don't work. But Thou Must.

I'll give credits to the Medusa situation though. It was a damn nice piece of right kind of plot we can't really do anything about besides react.

Thank God this rant thread exists... I really had to write this out of my mind.

[The Finch]

Shouldn't this go in the Main Discussion thread?

[Greyscale]

Mr. A sent a instatiation to do an AMA? Only after we nearly started a war on the forum rebelling aganist him.

Isn't that kind of Edward's whole point? He only did this after we took a certain action. If we hadn't taken that action, apropos of no prompting in-game, he would not have done this. It's the opposite of railroading.

[NeverSlender]

Mr. A sent a instatiation to do an AMA? Only after we nearly started a war on the forum rebelling aganist him.

Isn't that kind of Edward's whole point? He only did this after we took a certain action. If we hadn't taken that action, apropos of no prompting in-game, he would not have done this. It's the opposite of railroading.

I'm not entirely sure how seriously we can take the answers from the AMA. They were mostly about dartboards, toilets and fridges.

[Greyscale]

Here's the problem I have with what you are saying, Pixelmage -- you are supporting your argument with several things that inherently assume your argument is true. That's circular reasoning.

Several of your points are that everything that has happened would have happened regardless, when there is no way to know that. We don't know if the therapist would have received threatening voicemails. There could easily have been some other way to reveal the Cabal. Romeo and Juliet's fallout may not have been so bad. I'm pretty sure Holmes and Poirot were beating war drums before we intervened. And if the answers from the AMA were about toilets and fridges, then shouldn't that tell us something about the questions?

The worst part is that the only way that this pessimism could be dispelled is for a puppetmaster to step out of the shadows and say "actually guys, heres's a specific list of all the things we changed." Which is not going to happen, though Edward's post sounds like that to me, on a meta level.

I mean, obviously they can't derail the entire ARG, but I am pretty sure things have changed.

[NeverSlender]

Here's the problem I have with what you are saying, Pixelmage -- you are supporting your argument with several things that inherently assume your argument is true. That's circular reasoning.

Several of your points are that everything that has happened would have happened regardless, when there is no way to know that. We don't know if the therapist would have received threatening voicemails. There could easily have been some other way to reveal the Cabal. Romeo and Juliet's fallout may not have been so bad. I'm pretty sure Holmes and Poirot were beating war drums before we intervened. And if the answers from the AMA were about toilets and fridges, then shouldn't that tell us something about the questions?

The worst part is that the only way that this pessimism could be dispelled is for a puppetmaster to step out of the shadows and say "actually guys, heres's a specific list of all the things we changed." Which is not going to happen, though Edward's post sounds like that to me, on a meta level.

I mean, obviously they can't derail the entire ARG, but I am pretty sure things have changed.

You've got it wrong. We haven't changed things, we've only found them when we were directed towards them. Ed's list isn't what we've changed it's what we've done. And we've done what we have been told to do, solved the puzzles we have been given. We only affect minor details of the plot. Anything that is supposed to happen will happen, regardless of our actions because that's what an ARG is. It's simply a story told in a different way.

[Gurt]

Guys, I'm an Ascended Lime. I wouldn't even exist if you hadn't made an inside joke, run with it, and submitted it as a story to Mr. A--in a contest that was your idea! And then NarrativeDilettante sent Medusa back to her own world with the power of friendship.

I'm dead certain that, had we not stopped the Gorgon, she would have entered the real world and lives would be at stake. I'm living proof that we can make a difference.

Sorry if I seem a bit sour.

[NeverSlender]

Guys, I'm an Ascended Lime. I wouldn't even exist if you hadn't made an inside joke, run with it, and submitted it as a story to Mr. A--in a contest that was your idea! And then NarrativeDilettante sent Medusa back to her own world with the power of friendship.

I'm dead certain that, had we not stopped the Gorgon, she would have entered the real world and lives would be at stake. I'm living proof that we can make a difference.

Sorry if I seem a bit sour.

On a side note, how would you have handled the situation if no one had written a story?

[Adell]

Guys, I'm an Ascended Lime. I wouldn't even exist if you hadn't made an inside joke, run with it, and submitted it as a story to Mr. A--in a contest that was your idea! And then NarrativeDilettante sent Medusa back to her own world with the power of friendship.

I'm dead certain that, had we not stopped the Gorgon, she would have entered the real world and lives would be at stake. I'm living proof that we can make a difference.

Sorry if I seem a bit sour.

You tell 'em, Gurt!

Metaguards, this attitude isn't how we should be thinking. Our actions have brought us all together to work together, in both reality and the fictional world. It's our actions that caused us to lose hold of the notebook when we couldn't get to it in time, and it was our actions that found a load of characters hidden amongst the EZ blogs, characters that we have effected in many ways since they've appeared! That's IMPACT, baby. A team like us needs to stay positive, and be willing to take the actions we think are for the best, even if the results aren't immediate. We can't lose focus, even for a second. That's what I think.

After everything that has happened in our campaign, I believe we can make an impact! I hope that, if you don't think so now, you will when we finally set things right with the wall.