Watch the Footage

Pixelmage wrote:Hell I could generate a 3k lenght key, meaning each single character in a Non-Mimsy-RPG will have it's own unique substitution rule. Making it near impossible to crack, even with text allegories such as punctuation and spaces. This is the best way, because we DON'T want to change the key, so as to make previous posts still readable.

Okay, I need to learn to NEVER read your posts under the influence of sleep deprivation.

Pixelmage wrote:I repeat. We must not change the key. We need to keep previous discussions open to all who want to read.
One single gigantic key is all we need to send as an One Off PM. No more work necessary.

This idea seems fairly secure, we just have to find a way to get EVERYONE the code that they can then use to translate seeming jibberish posts that was don't want certain people seeing. I vote we just upload the code somewhere and PM everyone the link TO that code.

When new people show up in the intro thread (I don't think bots have worked that out yet) we PM THEM the link to the code, too.

No, just create a PM with every single active person on the site as a recipient and then any time a new guy asks about it, we respond with the cypher via PM. Be careful. If the Cabal is dedicated, they may try to slip into our ranks so look and see if their actions are suspicious first.

Sicon112 wrote:No, just create a PM with every single active person on the site as a recipient and then any time a new guy asks about it, we respond with the cypher via PM. Be careful. If the Cabal is dedicated, they may try to slip into our ranks so look and see if their actions are suspicious first.

Right. Unusually direct and simple for us, but what the hell, I say we go with that.

S'gonna mean a bit of hopping back and forth deciphering stuff...

Scarab wrote:This idea seems fairly secure, we just have to find a way to get EVERYONE the code that they can then use to translate seeming jibberish posts that was don't want certain people seeing. I vote we just upload the code somewhere and PM everyone the link TO that code.

When new people show up in the intro thread (I don't think bots have worked that out yet) we PM THEM the link to the code, too.

No. No hosting the code outside. And if we are to send a PM anyway, may as well have the code in it already.
Also, that implies that the people have to post on the thread to recieve the code. Once someone get's it, it get's it for good.

This does not seem like it will be good for people who are new to the forums, perusing to see if they want to become a part of this community. This is going to scare away people who would otherwise want to join us.

EdwardTheAwesome wrote:This does not seem like it will be good for people who are new to the forums, perusing to see if they want to become a part of this community. This is going to scare away people who would otherwise want to join us.

One of the reasons I just did this and didn't go off and start making codes...

EdwardTheAwesome wrote:This does not seem like it will be good for people who are new to the forums, perusing to see if they want to become a part of this community. This is going to scare away people who would otherwise want to join us.

True. Which is why I said at the beginning that unless we agree to it as a group, there's no point in trying with, what, 10 people?

Greyscale wrote:Is this really necessary to playing an ARG? I honestly don't think the PM's will punish us for stuff we write on the forums.

I agree with this. This discussion won't be very productive if it's the same 10 people, and it will pretty much be that if you exclude lurkers and players who haven't "proven their loyalty" by posting 50 times a day. Can we just assume the Cabal won't look here and move on? =)

EDIT: Ninja'd by Edward, haha

I think we're good with Happy Wacky Fun Time. No one in the Cabal seems like they're looking for, uh, any of those things.

EDIT: Those things being Happy, Wacky, or Fun.

ToMorning wrote:

Greyscale wrote:Is this really necessary to playing an ARG? I honestly don't think the PM's will punish us for stuff we write on the forums.

I agree with this. This discussion won't be very productive if it's the same 10 people, and it will pretty much be that if you exclude lurkers and players who haven't "proven their loyalty" by posting 50 times a day. Can we just assume the Cabal won't look here and move on? =)

EDIT: Ninja'd by Edward, haha

No shame in being Ninja'd by the Ed

But yes, I did mention this, it does run the risk of being quite exclusional.

ToMorning wrote:This discussion won't be very productive if it's the same 10 people, and it will pretty much be that if you exclude lurkers and players who haven't "proven their loyalty" by posting 50 times a day. Can we just assume the Cabal won't look here and move on? =)

Yeah... there's also a meta problem. If the GM's can't read what we're doing here, it hampers their ability to plan the story around what we do. I don't want a less responsive game...

EdwardTheAwesome wrote:I think we're good with Happy Wacky Fun Time. No one in the Cabal seems like they're looking for, uh, any of those things.

Also, we're already at ~60 posts of nothing useful to them. At this rate they'd lose patience to try and find something here. ^^

Pixelmage wrote:

EdwardTheAwesome wrote:I think we're good with Happy Wacky Fun Time. No one in the Cabal seems like they're looking for, uh, any of those things.

Also, we're already at ~60 posts of nothing useful to them. At this rate they'd lose patience to try and find something here. ^^

Bingo. Now let's get this thing on the rails since we should be safe now.

Edit: didn't see the third page. I think that clears it all up, then. This is what I get for trying to write my essay for tomorrow's class while important deliberations are going on.

You did a horrible mistake by not locking this thread away from me.
A horrible mistake.

Sicon112 wrote:

Also, we're already at ~60 posts of nothing useful to them. At this rate they'd lose patience to try and find something here. ^^

Bingo. Now let's get this thing on the rails since we should be safe now.

You are assuming that the Cabal would dismiss this thread as inconclusive paranoid ramblings and skip it?
They wouldn't. You are discussing your encryption methods. If that's not important to the enemy, I don't know what is.

Now. I'm torn between my common sense that tells me to hide our conversations from the enemy, and my meta-sense that tells me to stop screwing around with the game and keep it accessible by new players. But unless Ed confesses that it really is an ARG, I may get paranoid, just to screw with him.

Now, my beautiful paranoid lists.

1. Unless we really agree to use the 3 Kb keys (which is somewhat impractical), Viginer's cipher can go jump on a landmine. I vote for Blowfish. No matter how much of a mathematical genius Moriarty is, he will not beat Schneier. EVER.
2. This is the web encoder-decoder. It does not use Javascript, though, so the data DO travel over the network, which is not really secure if the Cabal has tapped into our chanels (and we have to assume that they have). Maybe there is an alternative to that tool. Or we could just download dedicated software.
3. We should make a list of the ones who get the key and guard it with their lives. No holding it in PMs in case they hack us again, no writing it down on paper, NO SHARING THE KEY WITH ANYONE EVER.
4. Considering that Moriarty has crossed into our world before the forum was created, he may be one of us. The inner circle must only include those who are able to prove they are not Cabal members. The only proof is some kind of activity that would be fatal to the Cabal. That is a subject of a separate discussion.
5. Ed. Ed is a puppetmaster, no matter how much he may try to convince us of the contrary. Ed does not get a key.
6. In case the PMs are stored on the server even after deletion (or may be restored), and we must assume that they are, the only secure method of the password exchange is a PM pointing to some file exchange. The password is stored for a limited time, and is securely deleted afterwards. To ensure secure deletion, I can host the passwords on my home computer via FTP. After all, the only machine you can trust is yours (unless you suspect you've been hacked, which you should ).
7. Personal security: even if you are sure there's nobody at home, lock your computer when you leave. Encrypt everything that may be of use to them. Considering that the puppets may have been possessed, we can't assume they can't possess someone from your family. TRUST NO ONE. If your relatives start behaving strangely, kill them, burn the bodies, and write a fanfic about that to fictionalize the remains.
8. The overkill measure is starting our own forum with some actual security. Sadly, I have no experience with such things. However, if we manage to follow the rules above, we should be somewhat safe. Unless the Cabal has some unspecified goal which we are unaware of, and which would allow them to make us think that some of us have been engaging in anti-cabal activity, when in reality they have not. And considering that so far we only know what they want us to know, this must not be discounted. In that case I can probably rely on those who have joined the ARG some time before the first letter. Maybe. Considering that Moriarty has crossed some time before, he should have had some time to infiltrate. Basically, only the very first tropers could be included. And I'm not even sure if I'm one of them, which could mean I may have to leave myself out for the sake of public safety.

tl;dr: You are the demons.

Dryunya wrote:You did a horrible mistake by not locking this thread away from me.
A horrible mistake.

Sicon112 wrote:

Also, we're already at ~60 posts of nothing useful to them. At this rate they'd lose patience to try and find something here. ^^

Bingo. Now let's get this thing on the rails since we should be safe now.

You are assuming that the Cabal would dismiss this thread as inconclusive paranoid ramblings and skip it?
They wouldn't. You are discussing your encryption methods. If that's not important to the enemy, I don't know what is.

Now. I'm torn between my common sense that tells me to hide our conversations from the enemy, and my meta-sense that tells me to stop screwing around with the game and keep it accessible by new players. But unless Ed confesses that it really is an ARG, I may get paranoid, just to screw with him.

Now, my beautiful paranoid lists.

1. Unless we really agree to use the 3 Kb keys (which is somewhat impractical), Viginer's cipher can go jump on a landmine. I vote for Blowfish. No matter how much of a mathematical genius Moriarty is, he will not beat Schneier. EVER.
2. This is the web encoder-decoder. It does not use Javascript, though, so the data DO travel over the network, which is not really secure if the Cabal has tapped into our chanels (and we have to assume that they have). Maybe there is an alternative to that tool. Or we could just download dedicated software.
3. We should make a list of the ones who get the key and guard it with their lives. No holding it in PMs in case they hack us again, no writing it down on paper, NO SHARING THE KEY WITH ANYONE EVER.
4. Considering that Moriarty has crossed into our world before the forum was created, he may be one of us. The inner circle must only include those who are able to prove they are not Cabal members. The only proof is some kind of activity that would be fatal to the Cabal. That is a subject of a separate discussion.
5. Ed. Ed is a puppetmaster, no matter how much he may try to convince us of the contrary. Ed does not get a key.
6. In case the PMs are stored on the server even after deletion (or may be restored), and we must assume that they are, the only secure method of the password exchange is a PM pointing to some file exchange. The password is stored for a limited time, and is securely deleted afterwards. To ensure secure deletion, I can host the passwords on my home computer via FTP. After all, the only machine you can trust is yours (unless you suspect you've been hacked, which you should ).
7. Personal security: even if you are sure there's nobody at home, lock your computer when you leave. Encrypt everything that may be of use to them. Considering that the puppets may have been possessed, we can't assume they can't possess someone from your family. TRUST NO ONE. If your relatives start behaving strangely, kill them, burn the bodies, and write a fanfic about that to fictionalize the remains.
8. The overkill measure is starting our own forum with some actual security. Sadly, I have no experience with such things. However, if we manage to follow the rules above, we should be somewhat safe. Unless the Cabal has some unspecified goal which we are unaware of, and which would allow them to make us think that some of us have been engaging in anti-cabal activity, when in reality they have not. And considering that so far we only know what they want us to know, this must not be discounted. In that case I can probably rely on those who have joined the ARG some time before the first letter. Maybe. Considering that Moriarty has crossed some time before, he should have had some time to infiltrate. Basically, only the very first tropers could be included. And I'm not even sure if I'm one of them, which could mean I may have to leave myself out for the sake of public safety.

tl;dr: You are the demons.

Dryu, while I agree wholeheartedly with this in principle (see above), our discussion has already determined most of your suggestions as impractical and umimplementable (see above).

However, I have an alternate suggestion which may please everyone. I have an alternate cipher system, whose name I am not going to mention here because it is not quite as secure as the Vigenere or Blowfish ciphers-- but it has another upside to it. With this cypher, all our encoded text, rather than appearing as gibberish, will appear to be readable text, but with a completely different content. If we use this cypher, we won't even NEED to worry about them cracking our cypher, because they'll assume they won't need to. They'll assume they can already read what we're saying. They might be disappointed in our apparent lack of paranoia, but that is all.

PM me for information on the cypher and for me to direct you to where you can find the key.

On a side note, your overquoting (especially right after the post you are replying to) kills me, guys.

I've only started doing that recently, to avoid confusion in the case of ninjas. Sometimes I think I'm replying to the post above, but suddenly there are five after it and nobody knows what I'm talking about.

You need to check whether there are new posts in history (below the post form). If there are, they will ninja you. If not, the ninja protection works fine.

Also, maybe we should set up an IRC channel after all. If everything goes smoothly, I'll take my tinfoil hat off and will not assume that the Cabal is tapping into my last mile right now.

Setting up other channels/sites/etc., as we already discussed, is not only needlessly complicated but also doesn't serve our goals; we run the risk of letting the undesirables into our private discussions there, keeping newcomers and anyone from here who can't prove their trustworthiness out, or, more probably, both.

Much as I hate to let up on the paranoia, we're going to have to accept that there is no foolproof way of keeping them out if the PMs don't want us to, and take this as our best option.

First, IRC allows things like invitations and stuff, so it's pretty muggle-proof.
Second... we may form a L33T-SQU4D, which is trusted with the most badass theories (and the IRC passwords). And all the rest stay on the forums until they can prove themselves worthy. There really is no way to ensure security without leaving the neophites behind. Desperate times, and all.

Maybe you're right. After all, if a newcomer hasn't proved on the boards that their allegiance is with us and not the other ones, it might be dangerous to include them in any case.
But the problem with you Leet-squad is-- what if one of us is a mole from the start? What if Sicon started this thread because he's actually Moriarty or one of the others, trying to trick us into trusting him implicitly? (No offense, Sicon-- just picking on you because you started the thread, and that's paranoia-fuel.)
Better is if we create a NUMBER of channels, and exclude a different one of us from each one, but carry overlapping conversations. That way, we'll still be in the loop, but if someone backstabs us it will be easier to trace who.

Qara-Xuan Zenith wrote:Maybe you're right. After all, if a newcomer hasn't proved on the boards that their allegiance is with us and not the other ones, it might be dangerous to include them in any case.
But the problem with you Leet-squad is-- what if one of us is a mole from the start? What if Sicon started this thread because he's actually Moriarty or one of the others, trying to trick us into trusting him implicitly? (No offense, Sicon-- just picking on you because you started the thread, and that's paranoia-fuel.)
Better is if we create a NUMBER of channels, and exclude a different one of us from each one, but carry overlapping conversations. That way, we'll still be in the loop, but if someone backstabs us it will be easier to trace who.

Okay, guys, this is getting silly now v.v There's really no need for all this complexity (yes that is me, saying there's no need for complexity.)

One of us is not going to betray the others, if we start thinking like that then we stop trusting anybody and if we can't trust one another then this whole thing is going to go belly up. Hell, even if one of us were a mole it would be doubtless unwise to betray us at this point because they WOULD be found out in rapid course, we're simply too interconnected and there's too much going on for it to be missed.

Also, while I know it's getting to a point now where it's difficult to hop in if you're new, we shouldn't exclude newbies who want to get involved in something fun and important just because we're scared for security this is still a game guys. If anything is REALLY serious or you really think it needs to be kept quiet, why not take it up with Ed or even Joe via a direct PM first?

As for the code... well it's still a good idea, and it COULD still prove very useful for certain things (secret messages to Holmes and Poirot? They'd understand it sure enough), I just don't think it should be a default way of communicating info about you know who. It runs the risk of exclusion AND it'll be a pain in the ass to have to translate random codes all the time.

Dryunya wrote:NANANA NOT LISTENING
DO NOT TRUST ANYONE! YOU ALL ARE MORIARTY!
YOU MUST FEAR EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE! WHO CARES IF PEOPLE THINK YOU'RE CRAZY!?
RUN AROUND SHOOTING PEOPLE! BURN THE WITCH!
WATCH ME SET MY PANTS ON FIRE!

Hey, maybe you should go have a chat with fictionalthreat, I'm sure you'd get along swimmingly.