Watch the Footage

In light of a recent tweet by Mr. A, I gladly asked for myself The Chessmaster as a trope. Oh the sheer stupidity. Jokes aside, I feel it's overdue the time for me to say what the hell am I even doing here.

I help with the puzzles that attract my attention, I talk with characters that I find interesting and I theorize whatever ideas I have in mind.

And I'm beyond exhausted of this Tram mentality. Every now and again some two or three Metaguards would unite forces to carry out an idea. This has become the norm now. No one except the lurker OneSteve has done anything game moving without first asking around whether to carry out his ideas or no lately. And I am personally tired of this. I can't do anything about anyone else, but I'll tell you what I'll do myself: No more secrets.

I'll not ask for permission to post an idea. I'll not ask for support to carry out a plan. I respect the metaguard and will warn everyone of what I'm doing.

I'll not withhold information unless it is a direct GM order or someone's personal info.

If I do have a 'secret plan' that I intend to enact, you can expect me to do it alone and post the results, or, if that's impossible, to openly describe it and ask for other people's help. I'll not take part on any plan not disclosed to the whole forum. Do not trust me to keep in-game information secret, if I am warned of a secret plan move I will disclose it for all to see.

Perhaps it's too late to take that stance after having spent practically all the game doing the opposite. I don't care. My patience to this behavior ended today, so today is when I'll take this stance.

If the collective still wants to play by the secrecy rules, cut me off. Simple as that. If I have to play by that book, I'll no longer be a player.

As to what prompted this decision now of all times, it was the in-game secrecy behavior reaching critical mass in my eyes. Other factors are personal and personal information is one thing I refuse to tell openly, after all, it is personal and not part of the game. That said, I'm willing to tell my personal factors to any who ask. As I have said, I'm done playing with masks.

EDIT: Let me make an addendum. I know I sound accusatory. Very heavily so. I'm sorry for that. I'm not saying names, and I don't blame one specific person for anything. I will not go on a spree of revealing secrets, as it might sound. I'm just saying: I no longer want to be a part of whatever secret plan that might arise. That is all.
I'm sorry for the offended.

After a lot of thought, I have reached a decision. I agree with Pixel, and I won't stand for secrecy.

Before anyone says anything, no I don't have the best track record in this regard.
So, here is what I am saying.
I am no longer going to just run a gambit, alerting only those I think can help.
I am however, an open book. If you have a question to ask me, ask it. I have never, and will never, lie to you.

I apologize for my actions, and I hope I can be forgiven.

Not interested in weighing in again on the question of "secrecy", as I feel I have covered it sufficiently in PM with those concerned. All I'll say is that I stand by what I do, and how I do it.

But I'm a little sick of thinking I know someone, and can trust them-- not on a "keeping plotting secrets" level, but on a "friendship" level-- only for them to punch me in the gut.

I'm still considering my next move. If I don't stick around for the last couple weeks of this, I'm sorry to all of you whom I still feel are worth knowing.

I'm sorry if you feel betrayed Qara. All I did was take a stance in-game. I apologize for my tone, but editing it into a more eloquent shape now would be a pathetic attempt a justifying myself. I can't do anything other than say I'm sorry.

So, Pixie and Eli probably could have phrased that better, and it was probably a good idea to apologize when they did, but in the end they were just acting as players and making a choice as to how to play the game. Unless they intend to actively interfere with how others play, something both of them have denied, I do not see any real issues here now that the whole thing has blown over.

I have mostly been purposely confining myself to the role of adviser. Should anyone want suggestions, I have been trying to be there to give them. However, I will say that you should not expect me to tell you everything I am doing, partially because many plans of mine remain in the thought experiment stage, and rightfully so, as they lead nowhere. What I give you are the refined ideas. Still there are some things I will not say until the time is right, for various reasons I cannot disclose. Should I actually decide to make a move myself, which I will probably have to do more often now, you will be warned before I take action, but I have no intention of outlining my plan prematurely.

That is all.

Sicon, if you are going to posit that you are essentially the team philosopher, you should know that the way various brands of philiosophical thought are refined is through the sharing of various thought experiments. Without sharing them, others cannot poke holes in logical inconsistencies and develop new strategies for dealing with them. It would be great if you could share these thoughts of yours - with your foundational work, it's possible that some of those initial thoughts that you believe may lead nowhere could be expanded upon by other Metaguards

(I am trying to be more active!)

averagejoe wrote:Sicon, if you are going to posit that you are essentially the team philosopher, you should know that the way various brands of philiosophical thought are refined is through the sharing of various thought experiments. Without sharing them, others cannot poke holes in logical inconsistencies and develop new strategies for dealing with them. It would be great if you could share these thoughts of yours - with your foundational work, it's possible that some of those initial thoughts that you believe may lead nowhere could be expanded upon by other Metaguards

(I am trying to be more active!)

It's nice of you trying to be more active- maybe you could even help us more in General Discussions? Or even pop into the Coffee Room or ride the Tram of Thought!

averagejoe wrote:Sicon, if you are going to posit that you are essentially the team philosopher, you should know that the way various brands of philiosophical thought are refined is through the sharing of various thought experiments. Without sharing them, others cannot poke holes in logical inconsistencies and develop new strategies for dealing with them. It would be great if you could share these thoughts of yours - with your foundational work, it's possible that some of those initial thoughts that you believe may lead nowhere could be expanded upon by other Metaguards

(I am trying to be more active!)

(I noticed! Good for you!)

Speaking personally, I would prefer more openness between all of us. I feel like problems like this could have been avoided if we were more clear with one another.

Sicon112 wrote:So, Pixie and Eli probably could have phrased that better, and it was probably a good idea to apologize when they did, but in the end they were just acting as players and making a choice as to how to play the game. Unless they intend to actively interfere with how others play, something both of them have denied, I do not see any real issues here now that the whole thing has blown over.

I have mostly been purposely confining myself to the role of adviser. Should anyone want suggestions, I have been trying to be there to give them. However, I will say that you should not expect me to tell you everything I am doing, partially because many plans of mine remain in the thought experiment stage, and rightfully so, as they lead nowhere. What I give you are the refined ideas. Still there are some things I will not say until the time is right, for various reasons I cannot disclose. Should I actually decide to make a move myself, which I will probably have to do more often now, you will be warned before I take action, but I have no intention of outlining my plan prematurely.

That is all.

Thank you Mr.A lite

Adell wrote:Speaking personally, I would prefer more openness between all of us. I feel like problems like this could have been avoided if we were more clear with one another.

Yeah, that would help a lot. Different people have been approaching this in different ways, and there are multiple advisors to contend with. I've been bugging people with all my questions, which are partly due to coming in so late, and partly due to how much Subtext and Reality Subtext is going on here. The actual experience of each Metaguard differs based on many factors - who they are, how they think about their experience, and which combinations of others they start getting to know. Which friends a person makes, which rabbit hole of archive bingeing they go down, which tropes they apply to their interpretation of others in their world, all affects how they perceive and think about the situation they're in. This is true for fictional characters, just as much it is for real people, or players in a game.

averagejoe wrote:Sicon, if you are going to posit that you are essentially the team philosopher, you should know that the way various brands of philiosophical thought are refined is through the sharing of various thought experiments. Without sharing them, others cannot poke holes in logical inconsistencies and develop new strategies for dealing with them. It would be great if you could share these thoughts of yours - with your foundational work, it's possible that some of those initial thoughts that you believe may lead nowhere could be expanded upon by other Metaguards

(I am trying to be more active!)

Hi, AverageJoe, I don't think we've met. I'm glad everything seems to be looking up for you. I've followed your videos for a while, but I wasn't sure what I could do to help, until Mr. A pointed me to the Introduction forum here. Now that you have more time on your hands, maybe you could help the Metaguards with the challenges we're facing.

I totally agree with you about sharing foundational thoughts and ideas. I think an important part of that is a person's backstory, which is part of how they came up with their ideas, in combination with their neurophysiology, their consciousness, the mental models they've developed through their backstory experiences. Those mental models (a.k.a., categories, tropes, concepts, stereotypes, scripts and schemas, theories and beliefs) in turn feed into their subsequent thoughts and ideas. This leads to a risk of a person being totally lost in their own world, and is a big reason why Socratic dialogue is such a powerful method for making one's way out of that Chinese Room or Platonic Cave.

Like Sicon, I'm trying to play more of an advisor role than one of jumping in to the fire of gambit-running amid uncertainty. There's enough fire to be had as it is! I think it's good, though, that some people *are* taking those Heroic risks, or nothing would ever get done. However, when the stakes are high -- in terms of both relationships and reality -- thinking about and discussing the nature of those decisions might be worth the time. Unfortunately, the philosophical/psychological/theoretical side of things often suffers from Cutting The Knot when things get intense, and from the "meh!" problem when there's no particular dramatic tension.

This whole situation involves the relationship between the voice of authority, and initiative on the part of individuals when the authority offers a loose framework, along with a Shrug of God. In other words, the individual -- you, or the person you're empathizing with -- has a range of freedom, but the rules, instructions, or the "right thing to do" is not always clear.

Fortunately, there seems to be consensus about being more open. Now, consider this twitter exchange with Mr. A, about how he can be SO SURE OF SUCCESS amid SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY:

https://twitter.com/YouHaveFailedUs/sta ... 1233116160

Mr. A referenced this trope: Unspoken Plan Guarantee. But given that this thread is about blowing cover and open discussion, what are the implications?

Unspoken Plan Guarantee on TV Tropes wrote:This, by the way, is why heroes always manage to escape a villain's Death Trap. The villains always insist on describing exactly what the traps do.

Admittedly, the reason for revealing only failed plans to the audience is obvious. Where's the drama in something going wrong if no one knows what was supposed to happen? Conversely, where's the drama in seeing exactly what you were just told would happen?

This may be justified if the plan must be kept secret, even from one's allies. Perhaps the enemy can read minds, and will know everything your friends know as soon as the two sides come into contact. Or perhaps they have other methods for making people talk. Or somebody on your team might be an enemy agent. If so, the only way to keep your opponents in the dark is to lie to the people on your side about what the plan is, or don't tell them any plan at all.

Another possibility is that the plan includes a deception, and your allies aren't in on it so that their reactions to the apparent situation will be convincing.

So much of this comes down to trust. Even with trust established between Metaguards, there's the question of what Mr. A is really up to, what assumptions he's running with, and how much he really understands about how reality works.

What do you all think?

We should probably talk about A on the thread in general, screen. Though as far as I can tell, Mr. A seems to genuinely want to keep the wall standing. His reasons for that are debatable, I suppose, but his plan of action WOULD result in the restoration of the status quo, and seems to be a pretty safe bet as far as protecting the world goes. As for the rest, about me telling you guys everything that goes through my head, I did try to do that for a long time. It created pretty absurd walls of text all over the place. I'll still do it every time I feel there is justification for it. I'm not gonna start going through detailed examinations of tiny little issues. That would just waste your time.

Sicon112 wrote:We should probably talk about A on the thread in general, screen. Though as far as I can tell, Mr. A seems to genuinely want to keep the wall standing. His reasons for that are debatable, I suppose, but his plan of action WOULD result in the restoration of the status quo, and seems to be a pretty safe bet as far as protecting the world goes. As for the rest, about me telling you guys everything that goes through my head, I did try to do that for a long time. It created pretty absurd walls of text all over the place. I'll still do it every time I feel there is justification for it. I'm not gonna start going through detailed examinations of tiny little issues. That would just waste your time.

On Mr A, I'll take it to his thread. In summary, I agree about his intent, but how the cards will fall will depend on many factors beyond his control, including us. It's a complex equation. I guess it's a fine line between thinking "everything will be okay" and spending a bunch of time turning over every possible stone, and taking all of this way too seriously. But the Metaguards are invested in the outcome, on multiple sides of it all, like with different characters they've sided with, or decided to believe or not.

With the other stuff, I'm writing in quite general terms here, but I think they're also applicable to this situation. I agree it doesn't make sense to waste time going through detailed examinations of tiny issues, just like in story the audience will get bored, and the time could be better spent doing something else, a.k.a., the opportunity cost of time.

The point is to find the essentials. I've written many walls of text, and of course, there's the question of what they all add up to in the end. Or at points along the way. That's why I've started writing walls of text that include links, at least, so once people become more familiar with various references (including tropes) maybe conversations can be advanced, here and elsewhere.